As a high D1 League player, I played Dota for 650 games and these are the results.

by pkfighter343. Posted on Aug 01, 2020    134    292


For those who never saw the post, I'm responding to this post, by /u/strider751

People are... less hostile towards league than they used to be, but, generally, people who play it seem to feel a sense of superiority over league players, and I kinda wanted to show that a league player can do well in their game, and that getting good at league means you can be good at dota as well. Plenty of skills clearly translate.

In 299 ranked games and 321 normal games, I went from total noob to Divine 1, over the course of 4 months. I didn't have the time to play as many games a day as he did. I'd also assume he played quite a few normal games, to get to level 30, so I imagine the number of games played was similar.

These are my league accounts, linked to leagueofgraphs so you can see my peak rank in s9:

Peter Kirk

1800 R U Slappin

Here is my dotabuff:

Peter Kirk

Through my climb, I was frequently called a smurf or account buyer (depending on my performance that game), but especially considering I took it slower (adapted to patches) and played significantly more heroes than he did champions, as well as played a role that forces you to carry or lose, I'd say I showed that dota and league are both very hard games that have their differences.

Also, if I did it, I'd expect doublelift to be able to do it better than me anyway.

But yeah, if you're curious about anything, ask me whatever you want :)


Comments

Lazrbeams

We hate league because pendragon fucking stole like half of our game. It's not about gameplay it's about principle.

But after playing this much dota are you really able to say league doesn't feel like watered down dota? No wave manipulation or denies, significantly less impactful items, no Rosh, no buyback. The list goes on.

  pkfighter343 2

>We hate league because pendragon fucking stole like half of our game.

I don't think that's true for every dota player, but I do understand those that actually have that as the reason. Pendragon is pretty objectively a piece of shit.

>But after playing this much dota are you really able to say league doesn't feel like watered down dota?

I don't really know how to explain it in words, but mechanical ability in dota is just less important, for the most part. You can outplay people so much more significantly with mechanics in league.

>No wave manipulation

This is just not true in any way.

>denies

Not having denies/being unable to damage your own wave makes you have to play differently and allows for a different kind of complexity that, imo, is harder to grasp the ramifications of than in dota. It's really hard to explain to someone who doesn't have a lot of high level league experience.

>significantly less impactful items

This isn't really true, it's just more impactful actives and more actives. Items in league are ridiculously powerful, they just tend to have a lot more of their power in their stats. It would be cool to see in league.

>no Rosh

Having dragon/rift herald/baron/elder is far more interesting and complex than roshan.

>no buyback

This is probably the one thing I agree with most. I love how buybacks work.

laminatorius

How did it feel to play a real game for once?

  pkfighter343 2

wat

seijulala

So, Dota2 player 6k plays LoL gets D1, LoL player D1 plays dota2 gets ~4.6k MMR

This checks my own impressions, both games are equality difficult to play at an average level (from dota2 perspective that's to me ~3k-5k) but dota2 has a lot more potential and it's an order of magnitude more difficult at high and professional level

ImF2P 6

Dota 2 player got D4, which is the lowest Diamond rank, D1 is the highest Diamond rank. D1 is top 0.16% while D4 is top 1.4%.

  pkfighter343 2

D4 is top 3% at best, the way the league ranking system works, people will just afk at d4 0 LP, so literally getting a single LP will put you from top 3% to top 2%. When he was playing, d4 was top 4-ish%, and winning a game in the bottom of diamond gave you 13 LP while losing one lost you 21. There’s a significant MMR wall to climb. If he made it to d3 it’d make some sense to say the % was pretty exact, but winning a single game in d4 didn’t mean much despite how much it influenced your %.

mimzzzz 3

Also him achieving d4 is great, but if he made it past d1 50lp or even out of d2 it would be actually amazing and indicative of skill as the amount of knowledge you need to get there is waaaay bigger than what you need to make it just out of plat. Also worth noting that once you hit d4 your LP gains are pretty much reversed (from average 20-24LP+ and 10-12LP- (so 50%wr and you climb pretty steadily) to 10-13+ and 20-21-) so it's way more difficult to get out of d4 elo hell than to reach it.

Pokefreaker-san

Coming from HoN, this game is EZ PZ.

Gorudu 1

Yeah because in HoN you can barely stand to look at those ugly polygons.

dididibolem

That’s actually crazy congrats dude

Falonefal

>I took it slower (adapted to patches) and played significantly more heroes than he did champions

I wonder if there is any underlying reason for not playing as many champions as heroes. thinking_emoji

SolsticeGelan 1

I don't think people who play Dota hate league itself? Have a sense of superiority, sure, but for me at least my ire has always been pointed at Riot itself because of Pendragon rather than their game.

Also, people are being oddly dickish about your accomplishments. Jesus people, calm down, its not like dota is a team game and playing with friends is fun or anything.

figotee 2

For me I personally don't hate LoL, it is a great game and fun, i just hate Pendragon and pretty sure most of the old dota2 player from WC3 days hate him for closing down the Dota-Allstar forum and destroying the community.

  pkfighter343 3

Certainly true for some! I do/did see hostility towards league in general, though.

47297273173

I came from league. Was low d1/d2 (at the time there was no master, only challengers).

When I came to Dota (after 2 years hiatus) I was called smurf all the time and is super easy to learn the new mechanics. But I believe is different for people skilled like plat+ from the avg joe silver or below. They already have hard time gasping the basics of moba, putting they on Dota would just feed the enemy team till he hit the lowest ranks. And oh boy so many low priority just for not being good.

But I believe the avg dota player (2k or less) wouldn't suffer so much in league. At minimum would have the same difficulty.

BTW, this isn't a good thing for Dota

mmat7 1

Another thing just dawned on me, but those 2 (what strider did and what OP did) are not comparable at all

strider was 6k, thats immortal and he was around top 0.5% of players (if I had to guess, its hard to pinpoint) and he was able to reach dia 4 with low D4 being slightly bellow top 1%

Op was high D1 which is literally top 0.1% of players a and got to divine 1 which according to opendota is just barely bellow top5%. Just so you know the top 5% (at least in EU WEST) in league is around platinium 3 50LP.

WillingLearner1 1

Back in the days where you have 2 mmrs, solo and party, I actually have 1k more mmr in party.

I get why some are trying to discredit your achievement. Climbing solo all the way is much harder

clear0126 1

Does the skill cap in League is low? I watched a jungler challenger player and when he played on his Diamond 3 smurf, sometimes he can't carry the match and got bad games. Is he just getting cocky because it's lower elo and the mistakes in league is really match defining? It's different compare when a 3 digit immortal plays on a Divine account, coz he can easily got 80-90% winrate there.

Rumpdebump 1

I think in like season 3 or 4 and back, it was soooo easy to solo carry, but Riot has changed the comeback game so hard that it very hard to solo carry unless you are a 8+ kill advantage champ that is a hard solo pusher

  pkfighter343 2

No, it's just harder to individually solocarry a game.

DemigoDDotA 1

I actually disagree. League doesn't have TP scrolls, their equivalent is a summoner ability that means you have to give up flash, it requires 4 second of channel instead of 3, it's interrupted by damage, and has like a 4-7 minute cooldown instead of 90 seconds. So effectively there's no teleports. Also, there's no smoke and much fewer possible gank paths. The end result is that laning is a much much higher% of the game, because ganking is so hard to successfully do.

  pkfighter343 2

You talk with a lot of confidence about things you don't know much about - you get to take two summoner spells, so you don't give up flash, it's not interrupted by damage, teleporting gives you a movespeed bonus after you channel to makeup for the longer channel time (the ability was broken for a long time), and a single good teleport can actually just end the game with the taking of a tower, dragon, and grouping to take the next objective after you recall. TP usage turns mediocre toplaners or midlaners into gods. Also, you can TP to basically any allied thing (including wards), so TP is like BoT tp, but better.

The other thing is avoiding ganks is significantly more difficult because there are no trees to run into and you can't just TP away out of vision.

ReTaRd6942times10 1

There is no 'harder' mp game. In the end you are competing against other humans. Sure if you play roblox you might pwn some small children but more often than not it's just as hard to beat other humans.

Ler_GG 1

imagine not doing it solo q hahaha

  pkfighter343 1

If it didn’t literally force me to play support every 5 games I would have

Ler_GG 1

imagine only playing 1 role

  pkfighter343 1

I'm alright with playing offlane or mid as well, just not super comfortable with support.

Sia-Voush 1

i wrote 3000 words of explaining why dota is objectively superior to LoL and by extension its playerbased objectively superior to LoL

but then i thought, this dude is already one of us

he's never going to be able to give dota up

i don't have to prove to you that dota is better, you already know that

congrats on getting divine 1, i've been playing for a long time and im about 7 games away from divine 1, so its a big feat that you've done that, i'd say you have the potential to go way higher if you've done this in this amount of time


best of luck m8. cheers

Simco_ 1

What's your comments on the OG post's comments? (eg. "only on screen matters in LOL.")

  pkfighter343 1

Haven’t seen it, actually

Simco_ 1
  pkfighter343 2

OH I thought you meant OG like the team

Yeah, that’s part of what inspired me to make this post. League isn’t an easy game.

Simco_ 1

So did you post somewhere your responses to his commentary? Agree, disagree, etc.

  pkfighter343 2

I agree with basically everything he said, I just wanted to show that dota's not some unreal difficult game in comparison to climb in.

The camera control thing is... weird, because that's something you have to do in league as well. People in high elo in league get made fun of for using locked camera outside of intense fights, so I think he was off base there. Imo a lot of the stuff in dota is about knowing things are coming without having to see them already on top of you, league is a lot less so.

Simco_ 1

Yeah, I'm just curious about the feel of the games, not so much better/harder or whatever.

So in lol it's normal to have it locked on your character the entire game? How do you look at other fights?

  pkfighter343 2

> So in lol it's normal to have it locked on your character the entire game

No, not really. It's pretty rare. Some people do it while a fight is happening so they don't have to move the camera as well. It's a well known fact that unlocking it and looking at what's going on elsewhere is pretty important. In new player threads, something that's always mentioned is to unlock your camera.

sora_naga 1

As someone who also plays league and Dota what are your thoughts on the obnoxious Ursa picks in Dota and Aphelios picks in League

  pkfighter343 1

I feel like this is a meme because I play both of them 8)

Frendazone 1

This is cool. Can't really blame people for thinking youre a smurf tho lol

rgthomps 1

Well done, bro. And welcome to the community :)

CaptainPeiper 1

I personally had never said that a league player can't be good at Dota 2. I only said that when it comes to gameplay League is less punishing than Dota 2 which is exactly one of LoL strong points.

I don't know if you ever played as a solo offlane or mid but I think you already know that there are really punishing consequences for CS (Deny) zoning out in the lane and having paid a hard price for every mistake you made. Like

Wrong itemize, skill build

Understanding of power spike

CS

Pulling

Teamfight

Ganking

BartyAbbeyCrouch 1

For someone who’d play 2 to 3 casual games on the weekends, which game would you recommend?

  pkfighter343 7

Probably league. It’s been built to be a game you can just kinda pick up, play a few games of who you want, and move on. I could entirely recommend Dota too, though, if you enjoy tense games with a lot of thinking. Depends on what you mean by “casual”

Snoweyman123 1

I don't think the most interesting part about this is you being able to succeed at Dota. You're a gamer so I think its pretty much a given that you're going to be competent at the game. The real question is how you would compare the two games. In your opinion is there a difference and what is it. I think the prevailing opinion is that LoL is a skill shot game that requires mechanical skill to perfect whereas dota is more strategic in terms of counter picks, itemization, timings, team execution ect. That is probably a gross simplification, but if you had an opinion on that, that would be great.

  pkfighter343 12

I'd say that's basically my opinion. It seems like a lot of dota players lose their mind over the fact that league could have anything at all that's more challenging than dota. Physically playing league requires a higher level of mechanical ability to be successful. It's a lot easier to lose a game of dota through bad choices. They're just different.

Snoweyman123 1

wp

DemigoDDotA 2

Good for you man

I do suspect that overall, league has more emphasis on hero mechanics (skillshots, aiming, abilities in the proper order, perhaps even small movements) and dota has more emphasis on large scale strategy- being in the right lane at the right time, farming at the right times, fighting at the right time, pushing /not pushing, choosing when to contest rosh etc

The thing about being called a Smurf vs an account buyer... I think that's just part of the game. I'm generally about 5.5k (low immortal or divine 5). My rank hasn't substantially changed in a while (years). I get called both of those things regularly

krullah 1

Skillshots etc etc yes,
Everything macro wise? That's league too.

The real differences come from Buybacks, losing gold on death, items and the positions in Dota.

pharaoh26 2

This is impressive, good work! I have been playing dota since the dota allstars era (more than 10 years ago) and I still have the same rank with the one you achieved in few months :)

Don’t mind the people hating your achievement and trying to undermine it lol. Probably just salty crusaders / archons

thisisnotdiretide 8

These idiots are denying facts and proofs of what this guy did LOL. Saying "Divine is not top X" or shit like this, haha. This guy did in 600 games, what 95 %+ of us can't do in 6.000. Dota is full of idiots, this sub is no exception to it, on the contrary.

Good job dude, after trying LoL for a bit, I kept saying they are two different games and that Dota is not harder than lol. Got downvoted, obviously.

Even this is a Dota subreddit, it doesn't mean you idiots must be idiots. Yes Dota isn't better than LoL, isn't harder, and doesn't require "more intelligence". I would choose Dota everyday over LoL, but that doesn't mean it's harder or w/e. Sure, LoL is a more casual game, but to play it GOOD, it requires a lot of skill. Same like in this game.

So yeah, OP, don't even bother. You demonstrated something to the other guy and to these morons. Even so, they will still find some bullshit ways to deny the facts and try to also make you feel bad about it. It's just what morons do. Look at the number of upvotes and at most of the comments around here. Sad, stupid people.

Sia-Voush 3

and what you missed dear moron is that OP gained most of that mmr playing with a smurf in his party

his winrate in very high skilled matches is 50.9%

his winrate with his smurf party friend in very high skilled matches is 70%


He didnt earn shit

namr0d 2

why are you so mad lol

Sia-Voush 1

> These idiots are denying facts and proofs

>im allowed to insult people but i call them out when they do it

  pkfighter343 1

You have no proof of anything. You have conjecture at best. Once again, I invite you to watch the games and tell me that he’s a smurf.

I know you won’t, because your ego won’t let you, but if you want proof, it’s there.

  pkfighter343 1

Because he's lower MMR than me after playing the game significantly more than me. I also hoped I was able to dispel (in multiple posts) the allegations that I played with a smurf, but, yknow, idk.

  pkfighter343 2

I invite you to watch his games, especially the earlier ones with me while he’s playing support, and tell me again he’s a smurf. We both came from league, he was peak plat 1.

jterwin 5

Well of course... what most people miss is that both of these games (any ranked game really) are exactly as difficult as the effort you choose to put into them.

So if you take the same player from dota to league or vice versa, the games will be the same difficulty for that player as long as they tryhard equally in both.

Dmdevm 3

this is a very good achievement, i don’t understand the people who want to find some way to devalue or tarnish it

BandanaWearingBanana 3

Congrats, and thanks for the post. Don't engage with the children, it's obvious your method was a bit different from striders, but that doesn't make it invalid.

I played both league (about 200 hours, exclusively with friends) and Dota 2 (about 700 hours, almost exclusively with randos) and can confidently say I suck at both games.

  pkfighter343 1

Yeah, I should’ve just stopped while I was ahead

Schubydub 3

The real question is, have you beaten the Grand Magus?

  pkfighter343 2

No :( I’ve only done level 2 so far, but I think I only have ~20 attempts. I think it’ll be easier for me to do these days since people have figured it out to a higher degree, though

Sia-Voush

weakling

i know a herald player that won the thing in the first week

figotee 2

Congrats man, you took 4 month and 650 games to get to divine 1? For me I have played for 5years, 4.5k hours and 5000+ games to get to that rank recently. Feelbadsman

I play LoL too, last season was Plat 1 and this season got calibrated to Gold 4.

  pkfighter343 2

Hey man you got there, that's all that matters :)

spareamint 2

Does playing both games give you the enjoyment you want, or do the achievements drive you (in terms of what you enjoy).

Also, after playing both games, which game do you prefer more - if there is a preference (e.g. on a day you wanna chill - would you play either or something else, or on a day you wanna tryhard).

Do patch changes entice you to play more of Dota?

  pkfighter343 2

At this point in time I’m only playing Dota, since I don’t feel like my role is or has been in a good spot for any serious length of time in recent history, so I just find Dota more fun. Patch changes are neither here nor there, tbh, but sometimes I find someone I enjoy as a result of a buff

joedavid_ 10

You maybe gonna read some salty comments from this community, but I'm really happy someone did this.

It erases our ( at least mine) curiosity on dota vs lol difficulty.

I got some questions though

  1. Do you think that "learning process" In dota is really hard (for new players), what should be done by the dev(if there's any) ? Because League tutorials are pretty good.
  2. Let's say you could give some number to determine the difficulty of the game (not the learning process, just gameplay) , on a scal 1-10 whats the number for dota and lol?
Sia-Voush

your bar for erasure of something objectively true is seriously low

because one person played with a smurf and got boosted to divine 1, it equates to "dota isn't harder than lol" ?


go play lol for yourself, its for children, Literally

you can't be an adult and really enjoy that game, its like dota if dota was paralyzed and had dementia

its a really bad game comparatively, also its way more casual

dota has been trying that out with turbo, but its nowhere as simple as LoL

lol is a game for people that don't want or can't cognitively engage on such a high level as dota

  pkfighter343 1

When I hit immortal and you're still bouncing around in ancient 5 level games I'll let you know. My friend will be around your rank then, too, so I don't really want to hear it about "wah wah party queue"

Sia-Voush 1

dm me when u get immortal lmao

EverybodyNeedsANinja

League is designed to be an easier version of dota.

When the creators INTEND for the game to be babies first mobs. The discussion is done.

LoL is so fucking easy. I got challenger rank. So I know a thing or two. And my GOD is it boring.

CumBrokeMyIPad 1

Op.gg?

TakeNRG 1

They could easily fix the boringness and add additional complexity by opening the map up, allowing more roaming, longer & lower damage disables etc. More camps, more invasions, fragment the teams and disincentivise all or nothing fights. Add some sort of buyback/resurrection style mechanic.

Sure they're all "dota-style" fixes but I play this game way more than anything else and im sure they could come up with plenty of unique ideas, It's all "fixable" but its not what their balance team is going for.

Owl_Might 1

well riot thinks that a game is more complex the more (complex? lol) champion they have. I remember the common rioter response when a new mechanic is added by a champion and it would be almost "it will add depth to the game".

seanfidence 1

you're right, LoL would become more fun if they do more of those things, but they don't want to do it, that's not their goal. so it will remain different. LoL does have some ideas that are just different as opposed to bad ideas, it's not as if everything different from Dota is a bad mechanic. but their overall philosophy has gotten warped because they really really hate walking back ideas after putting them out.

DonIongschlong 5

It is simpler, which could make it more boring to many including me, however the difficulty still stems largely from the enemies.

Table tennis is also simpler than dota and i can't imagine it being easy against a top tier player

CptnGarbage 7

Do you mind linking your op.gg?

Scrambled1432 6

Nah, dude needs to screenshot his actual account, otherwise he can claim that this is his.

cutewhaleee 1

Idk I think that's him for sure

lgdsimp 8

I cant imagine someone typing like this being good at anything, really. Link opgg

  pkfighter343 12

If you’re unfamiliar with these type of games, Dota is probably harder to learn. I think Dota would be easier to transition to and play at a high level if you have experience in high level games of this kind, because it focuses a lot more on doing things the right way rather than doing the wrong thing well.

I think it’s too hard to really just give straight up numbers, and I’d rather wait until I get to a similar rank in Dota that I am in league

--Someday-- 1

isn't divine=diamond 1 or by D1 in the title you mean that you are divine 1 in dota

  pkfighter343 3

Diamond 1 is the top of diamond in league

--Someday-- 1

Yes but if you transfer this to dota ranking wich rank will be equal to LOLs D1 ?

  pkfighter343 2

I'd guess somewhere in the low 6k area? Not entirely sure. However, at the time, my peak was rank 1885, so maybe that?

--Someday-- 1

Idk im ancient in dota and Silver 3 in LOL but i play very rarely and i don't put any effort to learn that game. I just play it when im bored from dota. And every time i switch i see how different they are.

cutewhaleee 9

People are so butthurt in the comments lmao

Khatib 1

Because his post about "statistics" is using grossly misrepresentative data. Making the whole thing pointless.

cutewhaleee 1

What do you mean? I think it's more impressive than strider.

mmat7 3

Im gonna copy paste my comment from the league sub under the same post, just so more people can see it. (Some stuff I wrote here were to simplify it in league terms so they can understand it better, you can ignore it)

Ok so I'd like to preface it by saying i've been playing dota since 2012 (dotabuff) and league since season 3 (EUNE and EUW) and I enjoy both games so I have no "side" in this, Im just gonna state some facts.


So im sorry but I just have to burst that bubble, he was queuing with ranks like legend 1(currently at least) which is about 3000MMR or hell, sometimes even as low as archon1(2300MMR) while divine 1 4600MMR.

You get about 30MMR per win in dota so if we take the legend1 guy who seemed to be his "main" duo most of the time thats a difference of about 53 games(as in the legend guy would have to win 53 games in a row to be the same rank), if we were to just translate it to league 20LP per match to even be on the lower side, thats a difference of 1000LP, thats like a D4 guy playing duo with a Gold 4 guy(actually worse but whatever, ill give him that). And let me tell you dota is no league, playing carry with lower level players you can absolutely obliterate your enemy. Some of the guys were significantly lower rank.

Now that is not to say that he doesn't play on the divine level, he very well might be, but it made it SIGNIFICANTLY easier to climb than if he did it alone.

So there is one more thing

Now this part doesn't really change much but I'd like to add something that caught my eye. Im actually gonna get a little conspiracy theorist here but looking at his duo winrates on support heroes they seem absolutely fucking insane and do not seem like someone who has played <300 games in dota, much less having most of his first game not even be on support. If you look at his previous games he seemed to have been a pretty mediocre core (carry roles like mid/adc/top, dota has 2 supports no jungle at least in current meta and seems to stay that way for a while) and suddenly started playing support and perform really REALLY well on it, if I had to wager a guess I'd say someone who is higher ranked started using the account, but I can't really prove anything so i'll leave it at that.

johnnyb721 3

I use to play league before I started to play dota. I'm coruious now that you've spent some time getting the hang of dota will you stay or go back to league? I found once I started playing dota league felt flat and simplified eg. No creep block or denies, item builds are less diverse with very few active items, everything just felt like its dota with training wheels. Ive played just about every moba out there from hon to hots, dota to league and paragon and nothing really compares to dota imo.

joenguyen2302 7

I’m a DIamond V player here just reached Ancient III, games are still fairly easy going for me so I could perhaps reach Divine. I think both games have similar ranking progression. I played in competitive scene back in 2012 (League Gygabyte Tournament.

However, the complexity of Dota does well in keeping old player, like really hardcore ones, but it makes the game frustrating to adapt to new changes. And the it contains much more stress

lgdsimp 1

how long does it take to learn the basics of dota when transitioning from league to dota? I put around 10 hours into dota with a friend like 4 years ago and neither of us really learned the things that are different between the games (How youre supposed to play lane, courier and stuff like this). Im D1-masters in league

joenguyen2302 1

I am kinda like a veteran I have been playing Moba since 2007. I played dota so much back in the days, switched to lol in 2012 when I was called something different and Leesin still had long hair.


I might say this controversial thing:


League in terms of strategy will require more much micro-management, because it’s super plain and doesnt have too many variables, so you have to follow plan and strategy and try your best to not make mistake. I could not imagine how stressful comp games back in 2015, every move was controlled and monitored, every body had to remember the main strategy.

Where as Dota, especially dota 2, there are rooms for mistake and improvement because truly no body is perfect in this god damn game and you always make stupid mistakes, so people take mistakes as lessons and you can actually laugh at some. Furthermore, dota has too many variables, like if you want to lock down a support, and the courier delivers the recipe for Aeon disk, it is literally mindblowing and cannot be forseen, so do to me is just more interesting overall.

But League cinematic and lore plus skins are out of this world. I still jerk off to league short films

  pkfighter343 5

Go for it! I think it takes people who enjoy playing games in a competitive sense.

generalecchi 4

Both are hard, but one has more depth

uads8das8czx7cxz7zz 21

I would like to see you do it without duo abuse. Your win rate in very high skill games was 50.79% as solo and 77.78% as a party. I have doubts you would have achieved the same results if you played purely solo.

Solo win rate: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/272798672/matches?date=all&skill_bracket=very_high_skill&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&party_size=solo&enhance=overview

Party win rate: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/272798672/matches?date=all&skill_bracket=very_high_skill&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&party_size=dual_plus&enhance=overview

I also want to point out that you are playing a busted hero. Clinkz has a 54% win rate in Divine-Immortal, which is fairly insane. https://stratz.com/heroes/meta?rank=8%2C7&is_ranked=true&bracket=7%2C8

  pkfighter343 5

I’ll update you when I hit immortal if that makes you happy.

Yes. I’ll pick what’s good. Is that really what you’re complaining about?

uads8das8czx7cxz7zz 3

I don't really care what rank you hit unless you do it solo.

I am just saying that your mmr is inflated by spamming an unbalanced hero. It is fine to pick strong heroes but spamming any hero above 53% win rate just inflates mmr. Say a hero had a 100% win rate, picking it and winning every game wouldn't prove much.

jkroyce 1

What if you always play with a character with a 53% or higher win-rate? The argument could be that once the champion is nerfed then you’re screwed, but if you just move to the next op champion being able to play op champions in itself is a “skill”, the same way drafting well is a skill. Does a Pro team say “they’re a bad team, the only reason they’re winning is because they draft well”

Rumpdebump 2

Why would you not play a hero that gives you a better chance at winning lmao. Pretty sure the objective in dota is to have fun, and winning is pretty fun

abdo1231997 5

Everyone gets to pick whatever heroes they want, it’s not like it’s an unfair advantage.

  pkfighter343 10

Playing what is strong every patch just makes you an adaptable player. If you only pick your heroes despite them being good or not, you’re not playing the game effectively. I’ll keep playing whatever is good in whatever patch I’m playing in.

Mamamiomima 7

tbh while im against some dirty tricks - i think its kind of a loser mentality to not pick strong meta heroes. if it was last pick brood or naga i would say yes that this mmr worth nothing because as soon as you get "average" hero or get you hero banned\countered your effectively become lower rank player in higher rank game.

And id say that Clinkz (unless played with Ench) is not as cheesy pick to boost you to hights (with ench tho you gona just have 100% winrate from 3000 to 5000 mmr, and people with overwolf just gona ban it). People on high level even ban Earth Spirit half of the games, even tho its not high winrate hero.

Sia-Voush 2

its worthless if you're doing it with a party of people with less mmr than you

rtyuuytr 11

OP's statment is false. That support player he always queues with is on a smurf account with basically only queues party. When not olaying with OP, plays with archom to ancient players with thousands of games.

51% win rate is effectively 0.4 mmr gain per game expected. OP would be stuck in legend somewhere without a decent Ogrebot blood lusting him every game.

  pkfighter343 2

I queued with two different people, neither of which are smurfing. You’re likely looking at chipichu, who I only really played with early on (nearly entirely in legend, a couple of games in ancient). If you think they’re smurfing, go watch their games and tell me that again. There’s a reason he isn’t climbing when he plays solo. The other one (who has my name, but spoonerized) started the game around when I did, and I taught him how to play support (at least at first)

rtyuuytr 2

It's your buddy Keter Pirk

Look here, you basically played most games on your account with this dude.

https://www.opendota.com/players/272798672/peers?lobby_type=7

There is an argument to be made that the mid/core spammer Keter Pirk is not even the same player as the recent 5 position player Keter Pirk.

Also your win rate with solo queue basically means that you objectively do not gain MMR per game, less than ~0.4 mmr expected based on your solo win rate. Most of your MMR gains are from your 60-70% party win rates.

BRAZILGAY 1

This game is just easy

BRAZILGAY 1

I’m not a smurf I’m actually just awful idk what else to tell you

  pkfighter343 2

I’m going to link this to him so we can laugh later.

Please just watch his early games at support and tell me you think he’s a smurf. You’re really grasping at straws here.

rtyuuytr 7

It really doesn't matter if your friend is smurfing. The math is simple, when you play with party, you win 60-64% of your games. When you play solo, you win 51%. You basically don't gain MMR via solo, you gain 5.6 MMR expected per game with party.

Walrusasauras 7

What do you think of itemizatiob dota vs lol

delete_techies 1

League itemization is a joke.

  pkfighter343 6

It's pretty interesting, but it usually feels pretty rock-paper-scissors. Prefer it over league, though.

password_is_jalapeno 38

This would be more impressive if you played solo instead of playing the majority of your games with a friend on a smurf.

  pkfighter343 3

I knew someone would say this, but I'd suggest you watch a few of his games (especially the older ones) and tell me you think it's a smurf. He started playing the game when I started.

Sia-Voush 4

regardless, inflating your mmr with party wins isn't same as doing it alone

cutewhaleee 2

Strider got d4 when mmr was extremely inflated while playing the easiest champ and role in the game the fact that he pussied out of mid shows that it wasn't easy

Glaistig-Uaine 9

I mean, how good he is isn't really what matters? Fact remains that you have 51% winrate in very high skill while playing solo, and 78% when playing party. Would you have reached the same rank eventually? Maybe, probably. But since you decided to point out things like this.

> played significantly more heroes than he did champions

I would expect more than having 51% winrate solo after hitting 3.7k and "significantly more" being mostly spamming clinkz, ursa and am, and losing the majority of games otherwise.

  pkfighter343

I’m sorry that I chose to play heroes that were strong in the patches rather than literally picking two and only playing them.

You also realize Nami’s winrate was higher than clinkz’s is currently, right?

Also my troll winrate is pretty high 8)

To be real, I queued with him because I don’t want to play support feeling like I’m going to lose unless my team is just winning everything on their own already every 5 games wasn’t interesting to me

Edit: also, yeah how good he is matters when he’s calling the person a smurf and I’m responding directly to that...?

password_is_jalapeno 42

Either way, your "achievement" is tainted because your rank doesn't represent your true skill. It represents your skill while playing with your friend, who drags the average MMR of the games down because he's two tiers below you.

  pkfighter343 8

I mean, I played solo as well? I carry plenty of games when playing solo, and this wouldn't have changed anything.

password_is_jalapeno 20

The average skill levels of your games would be significantly higher if you didn't play with your friend. It would absolutely make a difference if you played all your games solo.

  pkfighter343 7

I DID play games solo, and gained MMR while doing so. That's what you're not understanding.

password_is_jalapeno 10

Most of your solo games were against low Ancients, Legends or lower and you still only have a 55% win rate.

  pkfighter343 8

Sounds like higher than strider, and still climbing pretty well to me...

justonethingtosay1

ur probably better at pos 1 than the guy ur replying to

  pkfighter343 4

Yeah, I suppose that’s true.

password_is_jalapeno 10

I don't know why you keep comparing yourself to some random guy that made a post months ago like anyone cares about him. Congrats, you can stomp Ancient players with Clinkz when you play with your friend. Do you want a cookie?

Posterdudeguy22 3

Why does this offend you so much LMAO

why are DotA players so insecure holy shit they're just video games rofl

  pkfighter343 10

Because he seemed to care about the same thing in league. I don't get why some dota players are so butthurt about this. He said he'd like to see doublelift do it, seeing as that's never going to happen, I decided to do it.

Ace37mike 53

Great job. Though I have to say that strider did it under a more difficult circumstance by playing with different roles from both games. He grinded support in LoL while he was a mid invoker main.


You went with carry all the way in Dota and LoL. I'd say the transition to playing carry from LoL to Dota is much easier.


Edit: Now that I took a look in his dotabuff more, you played duo more often.

> Around 70/500 games was duo in ranked. After plat i had <50% win rate in duo stacks.


From strider.


I'm at page 4 of your Dota buff and you already exceeded 70 in playing ranked with stacks.


Not really impressed now.


Edit 2: We're being brigaded by Riot boys. I suppose some of us are brigading the LoL sub as well. IDK.

[deleted] 1

[deleted]

Ace37mike 2

It would still require adjusting to a new role.

Ashankura 1

Yeahhhh... You stop last hitting and instead of fighting you heal your team or peel your carries. It really doesn't take that much to change your mindset.

If you compare that to other roles in league

Top: Wave management all the way
Jungle: Tracking enemy jungler through the whole game and counterganking and punishing
Mid: wavemanagement + roam timers + gaining prio when objectives spawn
Adc: wave management + surviving until you are more than a minion

He took the easiest path possible and that's a fact. Go watch the videos about support from a league caster / streamer / coach named LS and you will understand

Ace37mike

OP took the easiest path too by not changing his role along with the fact that he duo queued with a support.

lgdsimp 2

wow the mental gymnastics to make playing an enchanter support in league not look like the an absolute braindead task

Ashankura 4

Yea but you are putting it as if the roleswap made it easier for strider which it didn't.

lgdsimp 2

playing support healers in league is like playing mercy in overwatch

  pkfighter343 16

He said he chose the thing that felt the easiest, and I did the same. Idk.

Ace37mike 20

Now that I looked into your Dotabuff more extensively. A lot of your ranked games were with playing with stacks.


Strider said: Around 70/500 games was duo in ranked. After plat i had <50% win rate in duo stacks.


I'm just in page 4 of your Dotabuff and you already exceeded 70 ranked games with stacks.

  pkfighter343

And this matters how? I was playing nearly exclusively with a friend who’s played less Dota than I have. I was literally teaching him the game.

Ace37mike 25

You know how life as a carry becomes so much easier when you have a support to lane with and not lane with someone who steals your CS?

Achtelnote 19

> He grinded support in LoL while he was a mid invoker main.

Support is the easiest role to climb with in LoL

PM_ME_ARTIFACT_DECKS 1

Why?

flUddOS 3

Generally just talent pool. Support tends to attract a more casual playerbase overall. It's the only duo lane too, so it's very common for a new player to start out in Support as well so they can get carried by their more experienced friend.

At the highest level, it definitely evens out more - Support is responsible for engaging in teamfights and has the biggest impact on map control; both skills are crucial and very difficult, but somewhat lost in the lower ranks where people barely look at their minimap.

Ashankura 20

Because its braindead as hell plus you accelerate your adc (mid-lategame carry) faster than the enemy if you do it right. A fed adc is the best wincondition in league

-CraftCoffee- 2

best win condition in unorganized play*

Assassins can shit on them but with a remotely sentient support it's not a problem.

Ashankura 2

In pro play aswell. Varus dominated the last patches and aphelios and Ezrael are still solo winning games

Luushu 1

I mean...Aphelios is just absolutely broken as a concept by LoL standards.

-CraftCoffee- 1

They're just broken, the majority of AD's don't do shit as a carry atm.

Ashankura 1

Everyone except adc mains disagrees with that. Adcs have low agency but with a little bit of peel they carry

asdasdfasfdafsd 6

support is the easiest role to play and he duo abused ?XD

KariDota 26

I’m 6k+ at dota (in two accs) and former Diamond league player (for 4~ seasons? don’t remember). I’ll tell you: although alot of the skills do translate from Dota to Lol and vice versa, that’s not what your experiment proves (imo), but that by learning how to ‘master’ a game you can very easily learn how to ‘master’ another game. If you can get really good at one game, you learn what you need to look for to get good, learn how to read a meta properly, learn how to condition yourself to victory etc. That no doubt shows in your experiment, that after a reasonably low amount of game you’re performing quite well, building the right items (at least from a quick lookover), etc, etc. You, as a smart player that has learned how to master a game, knew what to look for, what to learn, etc, got decent at a much faster pace than the average player.

If you try the same experiment with a Silver League player trying Dota vs. a Guardian Dota player trying League, you’ll most likely see them not doing well in the opposite game.

If you experiment with players that are really good in one game, getting them to play a game with a very different skillset (let’s say, a very good Dota player experimenting with CSGO and vice versa), you’ll realize that they’ll learn said game with relative ease. This one btw is a pretty common exchange, there are lots of pro dota players that are/were Global Elite in CSGO (s4, Handsken, miCKe, etc).

With all that said, the average Dota player would be just as bad at League as they are at Dota; and the average League player would be just as bad at Dota as they’re at League.

However, denying that there are very different levels of complexity between the two games (League being the simpler game) is just silly fanboyism. I can go on for hours about how League is a SIMPLER game than Dota (not necessarily EASIER as opposed to HARDER, but SIMPLER as opposed to COMPLEX). Dota is a game with much scarcer resources, not just information and farm on the map, but also way more limiting mechanics (as opposed to League’s off-cooldown skillshot spamming). League is absolutely simpler than Dota in every conceivable way (objective statement), which doesn’t mean it’s a worst game (subjective statement).

krste1point0

OP is lying. He started playing dota 7 years ago

  pkfighter343

I played like 15 games max, including the ones in 2017.

Simco_

> but that by learning how to ‘master’ a game you can very easily learn how to ‘master’ another game.

Congratulations, you just learned what professional recruiting is.

HelpICantPoo 4

Totally agree with everything said here. Refining your process of mastering video games is basically what happens after you master a couple of them. Knowing how to get better is more than half the battle. You may not reach the top 0.1% quickly, but the top 1% is within reach (iirc top 1% is ~5200 MMR). On a related note, Swedes in particular have a culture around mastering several video games thanks to how early dreamhack entered their lives. If you’ve been a lifelong gamer in Sweden, you know how big CS, Diablo 2, and Wc3 were growing up.

canao1 1

thats crazy, didn't know sweden had a big diablo 2 community, are there any big name pvp players from there?

Mamamiomima 1

WC3 and CS is already somewhat late, Quake, Broodwar yea

  pkfighter343 8

I think too many Dota players get mixed up in that “simple != easy”, though

KariDota 3

Yeah, I can see that. I think the whole Dota vs League argument is way too silly of a rivalry, and there's no objective answer to "which game is better". In the end, even though I'm a huge Dota fan (and think that competitive League has become extremely boring to watch), I think League is a cool game and have nothing but respect for people like you that succeed in the game.

yeusk 2

Well Dota 2 people hate LoL because of the Pendragon thing. Nothing more, nothing less.

Mamamiomima 6

I mean that proved when fightings pro player demolished journalists while first time playing Divekick: a fighting with literally 2 buttons - jump and kick.

sobervgc 8

s1mple is crusader tho KEKW

KariDota 1

Is he really? That's funny, I know he's a huge Dota fan and all, thought he'd be higher. I know some of the ex-NiP guys (f0rest and get right?) were like 5k+.

why_is_reddit 70

Wow, wp mate. Don't expect lot of PPL to take your achievement on a good note. For many fiercely believe Dota> LoL. They'll counter you saying you didn't reach top 1.6% like that other guy or ur LoL rating not good enough or whatever.

Great job honestly. Stick around for a while in Dota xD.

SolarClipz 7

I'm not sure what this is trying to prove. This doesn't prove that one game is or isn't better than the other

It just proves that someone who is talented at video games can be good in both, which I'm sure no one has ever disputed

Dota still harder tho...

BeerBatAIDS

on both macro and micro dota is more difficult. Then the fact that there's strategic depth and item variance.

We can have epic 2-3 minute long brawls and also have epic skill plays in those elongated moments. I've never seen a league fight last more than 2 minutes. Like actual tussling for 2+ minutes. None of the sitting back spamming. But like in each other's faces duking it out.

Meanwhile we have OG base defense vs LGD in winner bracket finals. We've got OG vs VPp today with their G3 bot rax push lasting multiple minutes with huge plays interspersed. Combat feels like a real event and not a flashfest preceeded and followed by poking.

  pkfighter343 14

Yeah... I played significantly more heroes, 150 less ranked games, and he didn't reach top 1.6% - people just sit on diamond 0 LP, and there was (maybe still is) and MMR trench in low diamond. You would effectively get +13 LP on win and -21 on loss until you normalized your MMR. The problem was that people would get boosted and just sit there, or they would luck their way up to diamond, and to lose it, you had to be plat 4 MMR, resulting in an extremely off-looking graph. Either way, what he reached was effectively what I did.

pleaaseeeno92 16

yea, I also like watching DoTA, and like the fact that it is more macro oriented and open to new gameplans.

When I play league it is so boring because Riot immediately nerfs any new strategy to the ground. It is just mindless teamfighting the whole game now really.

But I really cant time sink 500+ hours to get somewhere decent in DoTA. And im way too egotistical to lose to Herald players while Im learning the game. Same reason why im a one-trick in LoL too; because I over climbed with my main; and if I play other champs I will lose to worse players and I cannot handle that. Also, too much effort for a declining game. In my place the whole cafe used to be full of DotA, now only about 20% play DotA.

ngl LoL is stale as 2 week old piss. The game is incredibly repetitive and almost no room for strategy. Its mostly mechanical skill and good judgement. I wish I could switch to DotA but i feel like its time has passed.

Capfanluka987082 2

I don’t think it is too late. Dota is toxic , but If you play for fun, it’s the best game there is in my opinion . And I hate league because of the macro gameplay dota has . Once you find out how powerful and fun the macro aspect of the game is , you never go back. And dota really isn’t that hard . I think you can get to divine in about 6 months with minimal effort

Lounge_leaks 2

> It is just mindless teamfighting the whole game now really.

i only watch pro games and it seems almost every game is essentially over if you lose 1-2 team fights, might be alot different in pubs however

pleaaseeeno92 1

pro has always been like that because they are really good at snowballing. But imo pro scene is good, because there is lot more strategy there.

Solo queue is what i hate, it just feels like win lane win game. There is no splitpush or any macro involved. Because riot gave free movespeed to everyone when they recall; so if you are splitpushing their base towers they will come at you at mach 10 speed to kill you. The game has essentially become laning phase, group for fights n win..

GoogleFrickBot 13

Me and my mates started playing Dota after years and years of League, probably only a month ago. We are having so much more fun comparatively and the heroes feel so much more fresh.
People would be quick to tell us that it's just the novelty but if you play other mobas you have the same pared back mechanisms - hero with skillshot, hero with stun.
Meanwhile you got nature's prophet with twisted fates ult on his Q, pushing a different tower with trees. The game is batshit, and such a breath of fresh air, so I wouldn't exclude yourself just because the time has passed.

BeerBatAIDS 2

Yeah, the hero and item designs in Dota take the cake. You can take a hero like Ember and go Euls, Maelstrom, Vessel, Bf, Radiance, Bots as early/first items depending on the game.

You can play Io as hard carry or support. You can actually get ahead as a support and dumpster the other team. You can still make game winning plays with most supports while poor.

LoL at the higher levels is a snoozefest and teamfights are not elegant at all. And the skill just feels kinda meh.

Watching midone play carry again has been something else. His play with spec the other day was fuckin sick. And Saksa styling from pos 4 is a thing to behold.

Groogey 2

What I saw was gh styling over saksa and midone, but whatever maybe you are a OG fan.

Dermur_Knight 14

Awesome dude! Are you sticking with dota or will you return to lol?

If you a re sticking to dota, it would be very helpful if you could make a guide for transition from lol to dota.

  pkfighter343 29

Sticking with dota, at least for the forseeable future. I find dota more fun to play atm.

I may actually do that. I've written some stuff in the past, on what a support from lol should be looking to do:

>As someone who came from league relatively recently (playing adc, peaked high diamond, now playing pos1, currently legend 5) things that are much different:

>Try to give your core solo xp when you can. If you’re level 3 and they’re level 6 while the enemies are 4, you’re doing it right.

>Pull, pull, pull. If the wave is getting away from your tower and it’s a good matchup, you can pressure them off the wave + possibly kill. If you’re in a bad matchup, it lets your core get farm closer to or under tower.

>Buy the tome. It helps you catch up on levels, especially to get that bump to 6

>Check your carries items. Give them consumables, use salves on them, tangoes, use clarities on them if they need them. This is especially important before you get to any sort of high MMR, people will not buy enough regen or will not buy it early enough. This will save lanes for you.

>When you ward, it’s generally good to put your observer wards out of vision of the sentry range on the ward spot - if you just toss an observer onto aggressive areas in the ward spot, you’re usually just feeding gold. Watch some replays to see where wards are commonly placed.

>Look to make plays on the enemy midlaner once it hits 5 minutes, since vision range is so much lower. They’ll have a much harder time seeing you coming. You can also try to make a play with the power rune spawns at 6 or 8 minutes.

>Buy smokes. You can’t be seen by true sight while smoked, although being anywhere near an enemy building or hero reveals you. Gathering your team for a smoke and running through their jungle to pick a core farming the jungle is huge. A core, especially a 1 or 2 dying is a big deal, since there’s always gold on the map to be farming, unlike in league, plus you lose gold on death.

>It is okay for you to die. It’s usually even super worth it if you can trade for a kill on a more important member (you for their 2). You are significantly more expendable, and tend to give less gold/xp on death. Be okay with dying if it gives your cores something worth your death.

>That being said, not every kill matters. In league, anyone dying in lane is pretty devastating. Killing the enemy 4 can be a waste of your time if the core misses 4 minions - they may get less gold off the kill than the minions. Your job is to make it easier for your core to farm. If you two can pressure their heroes away, they’re missing minions xp + gold, and you can easily hold the wave by pulling + aggressively killing your own creeps once they go below half.

>To stress this again, once your core can farm in the lane without your help, or the enemy 4/3 leave, you need to leave as well. Giving your carry solo xp is crucial to their development, and laning is significantly more fluid in Dota. You’re only in that lane as long as your carry needs you there. Your time is better served elsewhere.

Arbitrary_gnihton 2

In the past? So you're not actually new to dota?

  pkfighter343 8

You can just go through my post history and find when this was posted, it was like a month ago.

TakeNRG 1

Warms my heart to see people picking up the game realising it's actually pretty fun

one_mez 2

Yeah most curious about which game you actually prefer to play now. I learned the genre with League, played for about 5 years before learning dota about 3 or 4 years ago now. Clearly you're just good at these kinds of games.

I just can't go back to playing League though. I don't hate on it, and I think both games are very hard in their own way, but I do find dota to be deeper strategy with more diverse possibilities to find a way to win a game. Also just the aesthetics of the map itself pulled me into dota. Like the 3d environment, dynamic trees, highground/lowground really make me feel like the game is alive compared to League's map.

I do miss ARAM though, that shit was so much fun and a stress-free game mode. The community in that mode was pretty great. I wish dota had an official game mode kinda like that.

  pkfighter343 2

Dota, but only because I feel like adc is godawful to play. I’ve been considering switching for a long time, and meeting a few people to play it with for the early games made it much less boring for me

Slocknog 35

people will use the argument that dota is more complex than league and therefore harder, but playing any game competitively at a high level requires high skill and discipline and that always translates. grats on your achievement and hope you can enjoy dota as well as league.

Sia-Voush 10

>playing any game competitively at a high level requires high skill

op isn't playing competitively or at a high level

divine 1 as good as it is, is 4.4k

but i agree with your overall point

  pkfighter343 4

It’s ~4620 actually, but yeah

Sia-Voush

mine's 4410

its dynamic

Groogey 2

No it's not, medals were used to be dynamic with mmr but got fixed.

finding_pneumo 4

its not. Divine 1 is 4620 and nothing else. you will only change medal once you get to either divine 2 or drop below ancient 5. Therefore you are ancient 5 and if you lose a couple more games you'll get the medal.

urdogshit 33

Sorry for hijaking top post but OP is lying

https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/18smkj/im_new_to_dota_and_im_a_lol_player_for_the_most/

>2013

Guessing he disliked all the new things 7.00 brought and quit for League. Probably was divine before he quit, and now he just made a new smurf to boost his 2k friend/gf whatever while milking good boy points from Riot subs. His "friend" plays mainly supports and has a low winrate on cores 🤔🤔🤔

krste1point0 6

Oh dear, what a shitstain.