How i killed the Apex Mage in Grand Magus difficulty. And one TIP for WW players.

by slendermein. Posted on Aug 01, 2020    99    56

First things first: Here is the match info

And match ID: 5541254920

We had a pretty average run, with OK-ish Scepter Shards and few lives when reaching the boss. This is what we had entering the final fight.

We managed to do 170k damage (about 75% of his HP) before three of our heroes died. Leaving WW (me) alone versus the boss.

They told me i should just die so we could start another run. But i had Winter's Curse up and there were some golems alive so i wanted to see what would happen if i ulted the boss, and oh boy that was the correct decision.

The tip i have for WW players is: If you have one or more shards that give your ult some attack speed, or even duration. You can probably solo kill the Apex with it. Play it slow, don't even try to auto attack and just dodge until your ult is up again. Golems do 1360 attack damage and you can have like 10+ alive at the same time. And if you use Bloodthorn that's a crazy amounts of damage.

Edit: Just thought of It now, imagine if I had the Foul Cursing shard, 50% more damage on the ult.




Schubydub 10

You can zoom out further than normal when watching replays.

Zerei 1


  slendermein 1


predator_007 1

what about the time he locks your ultimate skill? i bet its not easy to take skills back while solo.

Shang_Dragon 1

You can dodge spell steal with euls and snowball.

  slendermein 2

Just pasting what i wrote in other comment here.

If you see the replay, i use Eul's Scepter everytime Aghanim casts the spell block, i never lost my ult throughout the fight.

Yellowtoblerone 1

I've bought BKB but I still dont understand when to properly use it? At what phase do you use it to have it back up again to use it again for the next?


You dont buy bkb. There are way better defensive items. Is bkb even good on lower difficulties were you want to nuke the boss in 10-20 seconds?

Yellowtoblerone 1

You're in the thread where both dd's bought bkb on gm


So because OP did it then it means its a good item to build? Thats the logic you are using. Bkb is an objectively bad item if your only goal is to beat it. Also, there are not two damage dealers, there are three, and a tusk that acts as buffer/aura.


the fuck has that have to do with it? OP beat GM, I haven't, OP's DD bought BKB, I bought BKB, I'm asking him when to use it to utilize it properly. You're literally shitting on the item without an alternative when it doesn't answer my question.


Because your question is shit when BKB is an objectively bad item in this mode. It is situationally good at best. I wouldnt be saying this if I didnt routinely beat Grand Magus you shitter. Also just because a random dude beat GM with bkb doesnt mean its the optima build you moron.

Yellowtoblerone 1

Foh this isn't immortal dota this isn't about best item it's about what can make it work. If you dont give alternatives you're just a naysaying bitchass.

Esg876 2

Its a get out of jail free card.

You can use it during spears and keep dpsing, just make sure to stand alone so none of your spears hit your allies. If you get a bad laser pop it to survive. You can also use it during Razzle Dazzle, at low hp on T4 it goes crazy fast and is almost a 100% death sub 10%.

If your in a party you can also use it together to DPS, but most of the fight is just surviving until the Razzle dazzle starts and then you need to burn him as fast as possible/have enough lives/euls/bkbs to slowly kill him

I would say Euls or BKB is required on everyone in T4. BKB is an amazing o shit button but you will get spells locked out, so if your team requires something it can really hurt as each crystal takes 16 hits to kill on T4. If you have both you can simply outlast him and chip away mainly using wyvern curse. If you have an octarine+a CD talent you can have the ult up for almost every golem summoning, or use an arcanist potion because the last 20% is when it matters

But main adv for euls over BKB is you cant really solo him at the end as you will get spell locked and become useless and have to die to reset your spells.

sgbseph 2

I think it's most useful when used in conjunction with your team. That is, everyone uses their bkb and mashes their damage in those 7 seconds. Other than that, I usually try to stand still and lifesteal/satanic through Aghanim's 'laser', and if satanic is on cd, or I'm not lifestealing enough to keep my hp up through laser, I'll pop bkb. Just don't be afraid to use it, it's pretty much an item that lets you dps through one of his phases, and if you don't have it, no biggie, just wait/dodge his current phase. Also you can create crazy uptimes on bkb with combinations like arcanist potion+spell prism+bkb, or arcanist potion+ex machina+bkb.

Yellowtoblerone 1

Does agh's shard steal go through BKB?

sgbseph 2

Yeah, afaik only euls and tusk snowball stop the steal

Esg876 2

yes I believe so, you have to Euls to avoid the steal

ZOD_9 2


  slendermein 2

South America

lightblue0 3

You survived and your teammates didn't because you bought BoTs 2, simple as that

ilickyboomboom 1

It's either bkb or movespeed for the death ray. I havent tried building a bkb but in my experience bots2 guarantees you stay alive until you make a mistake and die to the ole razzle dazzle

Swarlsonegger 3

>Play it slow, don't even try to auto attack and just dodge until your ult is up again. Golems do 1360 attack damage and you can have like 10+ alive at the same time. And if you use Bloodthorn that's a crazy amounts of damage.

Yes until Aghanims blocks your ult and then what?

GoodBoner 2

Aghanim would never get his ult

  slendermein 3

If you see the replay, i use Eul's Scepter everytime Aghanim casts the spell block, i never lost my ult throughout the fight.

RemoteNetwork 1

When do you use eul's to dodge and what items do you go on wyvern?

  slendermein 2

The spell that looks like Pugna's suck is the one that blocks your spell, when he uses it you can click on him and see the channelling bar, just time your Eul's with the end of the channelling.

For the items, check the second link on my post.

RemoteNetwork 1

Thanks man

Pacific_Rimming 2

Is there some kinda animation or voice line he does before spell block? I rarely focus on Aghanim but my hero, since I try to stand at max range.

Swarlsonegger 3

yeah he gives you the succ.

I didnt know about the euls trick, so i am guessing he just euls at the very end of it.

  slendermein 5

When he is sucking your spell you can click him and see the channeling bar with a countdown, use Eul's when it has 2 seconds left.

I'm not sure but seems like this channelling gets shorter as the fight goes. At the very end you might have to Eul's when it has 3 seconds left.

DrQuint 5



n1i2e3 4

What the hell happened in the second trap room?

dezix 2

It was probably the one with the moving blades, most people find that hard

DrQuint 4

Slacks' advice on the top right bit says everything:

> Do this. I never could do it before. And this guy only did it once. Good fucking luck.

  slendermein 8

Yeah, those blades hanging from the ceiling have weird hitboxes and since this room can only appear late in the run we don't have much practice with It.

ItsMeCl0ud 4

I hate that room so much. Especially when blades disappears in fog of war. Lost to it twice i think

lawlianne 9

For WW, is it better to rush Orchid/Bloodthorn or go the raw damage build (like MoM, MKB, Daedalus)?
What is the "meta" anyway?

Is lifesteal necessary to get? MoM? Octarine? Or rely on Teammate's Vlads?


The great thing about rushing orchid is just how all your spells are practically free thanks to how much mana and mana regen it gives you. It’s also a great save as it prevents a lot of monsters from doing their one nasty ability, or in some cases (shadow shaman during mushrooms) it’s better used as an interupt on their channel

Esg876 1

I go MKB first because that way you can ignore bubble modifiers once you beat the first boss (should have enough gold for boots->lace->mkb after you clear bonus room).

Bubble can cause a lot of issues combined with other modifiers on T4 so its almost a must to avoid deaths/wipes.

After that I always get an Orchid at minimum and then my build depends on how much gold and shards I have. If I have split shot I get octarine for higher uptime on the Q, Euls is required eventually and then you choose rest of the items depending on playstyle/t5 drops.

Moes-T 1

Why is it so good? It got nerfed real hard, no? And to cast it, you need to come closer while q is active, losing time to damage.

Esg876 1

It got nerfed yes, but its pretty cheap still (bloodthorn is +1k) and its very good for damage amp and the silence can help a lot on some of the captains. You also wont have perma Q unless you get lucky with shards and get octarine which is usually 15+, so you have time to cast it then Q

If you get it after MKB, you should have it by room 9 depending how much gold you got. The below is what the main uses for it are other than damage amp

Floor 9

Elder Titan Spells

Beast Master Roar

Lich/Dark seer

Pudge ult

Floor 10

Shadow demons

Floor 11

Not sure if you can interrupt golem sunray

Kunkaa boat/torrent

DK/Underlord spells

Ogre Magi

Floor 15

Wildwings, you can interrupt when they start casting = no tornado and no spawns

On Alch if you cast it at ~4.5 secs on the stun he wont cast it (I think he casts it around 4 sec left of channel) and will stun himself, but need to double check as I avoid him mostly

Floor 16

Bandits to avoid mass dagger

Pudge for hooks

WK to stop stuns (not sure if they have high status resist so might not be great)

Floor 17

Broods to stop lasso/veno orb

Phoenix: It doesn't last long but if you use it at low hp can burst the phoenix so it dies and does not egg in time (might be wrong about this, again I avoid the room in T4)

OPsuxdick 1

I Sniper a lot. I usually go boots(skip it depending on rooms sometimes), javelin, mom, mkb. Madness is so good early game.

DunderSunder 2

Rush MKB. Think about the LC/Mirana room and how hard it can get if they have bubble.

Then I buy orchid and KayaYasha

other useful items : hurricane pike, Mjolnir , HoT , eul, BKB

hehe6 2

octarine is only useful with the splitshot and mjolnir mkb build. if you're going for physical damage, always go for MoM.

  slendermein 6

I don't actually know what build is better and what is meta, i do know that lifesteal is not that necessary, a vlads from your team should be enough. Octarine is nice, i would probably have bought one if i had more gold.

I had a match earlier where both Weaver and Sniper rushed madness and tusk got some Tag Team shards, the early game was a breeze. Maybe if i had a madness too would be better. Very situational.

EDIT: Forgot to talk about Bloodthorn, i think you should get every game no exceptions.

CritHitLights 1

What's your typical item build with WW?

Rrrrrabbit 5

Phys dmg is the build. Never go maelstrom as there are some rooms which kill you if you have a mealstorm.

Phys dmg is better as you don't really need a tank and taking 4 Rang heroes the main dmg is phys

lawlianne 1

Yeah, I'm in the physical dmg camp too.

I like when it synergises with all the sniper/weaver armor reducing moves, solar crest, deso etc.

FreeHatsOrTechies 51


Winter Wyvern's ult deals half damage to aghanim

intercroissant 11


Winter Wyvern deals half damage to aghanim

Ace_Jokerz 13

Winter Wyvern removed from the Aghanim

TheR4nd0mGuy 3

7.27g Winter Wyvern removed from dota 2, more clinkz buffs.

SSaiDai_ 2

7.27h Clinkz's first ability can eat Aghanim

Moes-T 2

7.27i clinkz' aghanims now spawns a winter wyvern.