I've been disgusted by this fanbase many times during my 8 years here, but the amount of people trying to defend Ben's creepy behavior is probably the worst.

by Geno098. Posted on Jul 01, 2020    38    73


It's been almost two months since people discovered Ben's twitters history where in the span of 3 years he made lots of inappropriate sexual comments to a minor, Jacob Sartorius, who is a child internet celebrity. Which included Ben retweeting his shirtless pics, and even meeting him in real life and taking a selfie with him. Jacob was 14 when he started doing it, and continued doing it until he was 17. It's extremely gross and borderline predatory. Arin was made aware of this, and he said that he dealt with it. Yet we're still here almost two months later and Ben is still apparently working for them and it's clear they're just trying to sweep the issue under the rug. Maybe Arin doesn't want to fire him because it would make him jobless during the pandemic, maybe he doesn't want to fire him because his Mom died recently. But at the end of the day, Ben still needs to be held accountable. And we see no signs of that actually happening now.

In the middle of all this, I am actually amazed that a community that constantly preaches "positivity" and "wholesomeness" is filled with people who are seemingly ok with Ben's borderline predatory behavior. I know a lot of people who will defend Game Grumps to their death bed, but THIS is not a time where you should be blindly forgiving of anything they do wrong. Ben's twitter history is just flat out creepy. I could see how someone could argue that those tweets don't automatically make him a pedophile, but the creepy tweets still exist and they're still disgusting. The fact that there are people who are blindly defending a potential pedophile is just... astonishing.

Common defenses I see are:

"It's not a big deal!"

If you think a grown ass man sexualizing and harassing a child on Twitter isn't a big deal, then I question what kind of person you really are.

"He was just making edgy jokes!"

No. A joke doesn't involved making sexual comments to a real life child over the course of three years. If it was once or twice then sure, you could pass it off as just being edgy. Arin and Dan have both made jokes like that before and nobody made a big deal out of it because it was clearly just a joke. It goes beyond being a joke when you repeatedly target a minor with sexual comments for years. There is no humor in that whatsoever.

"Just let Arin deal with it and mind your own business!"

It's become clear that Arin isn't dealing with it. I was relieved when he said on stream that he WAS dealing with it because I don't know about you, but ever since this has come out I've felt gross watching Game Grumps knowing that a creep like Ben is involved. But Ben is still there. He's being credited as their editor. And that is absolutely not ok after what came out about him.

"You're just mad because he made bad thumbnails"

People were shitting on him for his cringey thumbnails, for sure. But this argument is one of the worst that I've repeatedly seen parroted in this subreddit. If you genuinely think people who don't like his thumbnails are only mad at Ben's creepy behavior because of them, you're just reaching for excuses to defend him.

I know this is a long post, but my god. It's just mind blowing that people will do whatever they can to defend him and act like he wasn't in the wrong here even though everyone saw the tweets he made. These people are problematic because they're helping Ben escape from this without being held accountable. I'm not sure if that's actually what their goal is, but yall need to stop and realize that his behavior was not ok and the Grumps should not be associated with him.


Comments

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LeratoNull

Ah, isn't it, though?


I often participate in Rant Grumps to tell them how foolish they're often being (not that ALL of their complaints are invalid, but many are ridiculous and petty), and you wanna know something? My dad's a convicted pedophile and I'm less riled up than those losers.

Motor_Space8371 2

I’m sorry to hear that about your dad. I’m sure that’s been a lot to deal with and hope you’re managing ok. Thank you for being a positive member of the community and helping to weed out the toxicity that ruins the fun for everybody.

LeratoNull 1

heheh, i don't think THEY think i'm a very positive member of their community

That aside, it was back at the start of 2017, but even aside from that, I got his completely paid off car out of the deal, which softens the blow immensely, lemme tell ya...

I'm just lucky he only ever had sons, considering he was still straight. Could've been way, way worse if he had daughters.

  Geno098 15

None of your arguments are reasonable homie. All you've done is follow me around trying to reach for any reason to justify why you're defending a man who made sexual comments to a child for years. That's what I'd call absolutely pathetic.

Motor_Space8371

I’m pretty sure that if you read what we both said, I’m the one making logical, even-tempered arguments as to why we shouldn’t destroy someone’s life over a relatively harmless joke, and you’re ranting out of pure anger and emotion because you clearly have some kind of vendetta. But hey, go off bud.

  Geno098 7

That’s the issue though. You’re just passing it off as a joke when it’s well beyond that. If you can’t even realize that then there’s no point in trying to take what you say seriously since it just sounds like you desperately want to defend him and his creepy tweets.

Motor_Space8371

No, actually. The issue here is that you’re not listening to the many people here, some of whom say they themselves were victims of pedophilic abuse, who have exhaustively outlined why they truly believe that this is not “well beyond” just a joke. There is far more evidence pointing to the fact that it was a joke than there is to your argument that it’s “well beyond” that. Once you refuse to listen to reason and make any concessions to rational thought, you lose all credibility with anybody who wants to have a real discourse about the subject. To any discerning, intelligent person, you just look like part of an angry mob.

  Geno098 6

> There is far more evidence pointing to the fact that it was a joke than there is to your argument that it’s “well beyond” that.

Literally the only evidence is Ben saying "haha it was just a joke" after the tweets were discovered. Meanwhile there are years of tweets that show his creepy infatuation with a child. I'll gladly listen to any arguments that aren't clearly coming from someone who is desperately white knighting to defend a creep like Ben. In fact I've had my mind changed a bit since this whole thing started from his defenders and went from thinking he was just a straight pedo to just a potential pedo. You're very much in the camp of someone who will defend him at all costs even if it's clear he was in the wrong so naw fuck off.

Motor_Space8371 2

Actually I’m completely unbiased. I read the arguments and have made my judgement call. If I had thought Ben did something wrong, I’d happily join in the chorus of people calling for his dismissal. But instead, I’m going to defend someone who I believe is being unfairly maligned. But “naw fuck off,” is what you say. Great argument dude. People like you make being a Game Grumps fan a lot less fun.

russellamcleod

Can you start reading the room already? Nobody cares anymore. Stop wasting our time and yours.

  Geno098 17

I’ve read the room. And the room is filled with people defending a man making sexual comments to a child. That’s the problem.

Mrunlikable

I can build you your own room you can go and cry in if you'd prefer.

Oh, no, that's r/rantgrumps.

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Mrunlikable

Thanks sneakpeak bot. I can always count on you.

Motor_Space8371

I think to most people paying attention, your weird obsession with ben is the creepiest thing happening here...

  Geno098 12

Naw being disturbed over a grown man making sexual comments to a child and wanting him to be held accountable is completely rational. Obsessively defending said man is not.

zekecheek 1

> borderline predatory
>
> potential pedophile

You are couching your words with safety adjectives to justify antagonistic self-righteous mud-slinging.

It's okay to defend someone from being called a pedophile if they're not a pedophile. Even if that person is guilty of other things. Justice isn't binary. Standing up for that shouldn't disgust you.

Also, your dumb pitchfork mob isn't a grassroots activism campaign. You may be camping out with protest placards, but this isn't Arin's lawn. It's ours. Please stop shitting on our lawn.

LeratoNull

>You are couching your words with safety adjectives to justify antagonistic self-righteous mud-slinging.

He's a Rant Grumps poster, that's just standard play over there.

  Geno098 12

Honestly, I avoided rant grumps as much as I could. But it's clear now that this place is a lot worse than rant grumps now.

LeratoNull

De-fucking-batable considering that responses I got on that sub to my bringing up my father is a convicted pedo ranged from 'Sounds like you're as bad as he is' to 'I don't believe you and fuck you for lying!'.

Mrunlikable

As someone who was both the victim of abuse, has seen abuse happen to multiple people in real life, and has currently researched this specific issue in detail, I feel I am uniquely qualified to express my opinion on it.

The whole Ben situation is off base.

Firstly, pedophilia is a mental disorder, not a crime. It's not even a legal term. The disorder is defined as a sexual attraction to a person who is 13 or less years of age. There also has to be a difference in age of 5 years or more. Jacob was 14, so in the definitive sense, the pedophilia diagnosis is wrong from the start.

Regardless, if he was a pedophile, he would need psychological help, not a disciplinary hearing based on twitter posts.

Second, the "crimes" people have been accusing him of do not apply. Jacob was 17 when Ben posted his "is it ok to ask a 17 year old youtuber for nudes" joke. Even if he was serious (based on his posting history and what we know of his personality, he wasn't) this wouldn't classify as "child grooming" which multiple people have insisted. Child grooming only applies to people 16 years of age or less. In fact, many of the crimes people have been insisting on wouldn't actually apply because of this reason.

3rd, the only "evidence" of wrongdoing applies specifically to Jacob Sartorius, who doesn't care enough to make a public statement. If he doesn't care, why should you?

4th, Ben doesn't exhibit the signs of an abuser. Abusers know the things they're doing are wrong, so they'll do anything to hide it. Instead, he was very open about his comments for years before the public backlash. That's not what abusers do. They don't want to be seen. They don't want to draw attention to themselves. If they do, they can't keep abusing, which is what they want to do.


Lastly, Ben is an amateur comedian and editor. He doesn't have the same level of experience that other people have. Comparing him to Dan and Arin is just wrong. He's still growing as a person and this is the first real time he's seen public backlash to this scale.

Yes, saying some of the things he said are wrong, but that doesn't make him a criminal. Instead, he's just a budding comedian who still has a lot to learn.

Sure, it may have taken three years or whatever, but this incident will help him learn and grow into a better person. I want that for him. I want that for everyone.

So I'm going to forgive him. I hope others give him the same chance.

myboaharthur

This is literal pedophilia defending. Know it's ok to as a 17 year old for nudes for three years straight, starting when Jacob was 14. I think if you think this is ok, you need to seek help.

Mrunlikable 1

It is not. You guys just can't wrap your head around the fact that bad jokes on the internet exist. If Jacob himself were to come out and say "no he's not a pedophile," you guys would still be saying the same things.

myboaharthur 1

You're blinded by your favorite channel that you honestly would say making a 'joke' about asking a 17 year old boy (while maybe not a child, still not an adult in the eyes of the law. Made even worse by the age gap) is ok. Not to mention Ben has been talking to Jacob since he was 14. There's even a photo of the two arms around each others shoulders when he was 15. So stop thinking your heroes are infallible because frankly, every single person on that channel has done heinously terrible things and you (the die hard fans) defend them no matter what. I believe that Jacob could come out and say Ben DID do something extremely inappropriate to him and you guys would be still defending him.

Mrunlikable

Actually, no. If he said that Ben has been harrassing him, then everyone here would be very upset by it.
That's why when I was making my article I made sure to reach out to Jacob in multiple ways. You know what he said?

Nothing.

That tells us that Jacob doesn't care. If he said "yes I know him" or "yes, he's been sexually aggressive to me for years," then everyone would be up in arms.

Instead, people like you started drama where there was none. You're still doing it. If you want to take a stand, unsubscribe from game grumps and leave. Let the rest of us make stupid jokes and references, which is what this reddit was for anyway.

myboaharthur 1

So a celebrity ignoring a very low level 'journalist' shows lack of care? He's a celebrity he has millions of fans. Your level of complacency is disgusting, you really need to take a look at the situation. Victims don't always speak out against their abusers. Abusers don't always act as you have to find abusers to act. Your logic is flawed, your defense is wrong, Ben is a pedophile! And the fact that you're doing everything to try and debunk these things is disgusting. If he was just a regular person in the world and it was a same situation and neither were a celebrity you would think this is disgusting! Don't act like either of them are invincible because they're celebrities. Ben did something wrong he needs to answer for it. And honestly I pity any children that you will have for the mere fact that if somebody were to do something to your child as an edgy joke you would say huh he was just joking.

Mrunlikable 2

> And the fact that you're doing everything to try and debunk these things is disgusting.

I'm pretty sure the facts debunk it.

>If he was just a regular person in the world and it was a same situation and neither were more celebrity you would think this is disgusting!

No, if the facts were these same ones, my opinion would not change.

>And honestly I pity any children that you will have for the mere fact that if somebody were to do something your child as an edgy joke you would say huh he was just joking.

The fuck is wrong with you guys? Are you the same person constantly saying that to people, or is it a group of you?

myboaharthur

I'm gonna leave this argument here, because it seems you believe asking a 17 year old BOY for nudes I'd ok. Says something about yourself, huh? Enjoy your day, Mr pedophile sympathizer.

Mrunlikable 2

Remember to unsubscribe on the way out

myboaharthur

Oh no, I'm not going to do that. I like to keep tabs on how forgiving you are of the racists, womanizers, and pedophiles of their channel. Because it's fascinating to see the lengths you people will go to defend your precious game grumps.

russellamcleod 3

Thank you for being smart, level headed and well spoken.

Now let’s hear no more of this nonsense because you said all that needs to be said on the subject.

THE END

QuickQuiverMAGA 8

The_Ben_Defender has logged on. You're everywhere defending this guy.

Mrunlikable

I'll defend anyone who's having their character attacked in this way when they don't deserve it. Even you sir.

QuickQuiverMAGA 5

You're a very strange person with a weird relationship (probably parasocial) with a minor internet celebrity who spends a not insignificant amount of their time online finding critiques of their creepy behavior and doing everything you can to minimize it.


Look how much you've posted about this guy. Not just in this comment, but in the thread you started, and every other comment you've made about him. You really should do something else with your time.

Mrunlikable 6

Things got personal when I said he wasn't a pedophile and people responded by calling me a pedophile. Maybe don't get me started next time.

QuickQuiverMAGA

Yikes.

myboaharthur 1

I mean, it takes one to defend one.

  Geno098 17

You were the one tweeting at Ben that this was all a big conspiracy against him weren't you? Yeah I'm not going to take anything you say seriously. I was a victim of sexual abuse too and that's why this is such a serious issue for me and I'm actually pissed off that so many people are taking it so lightly. Ben is so very clearly a creep and I don't know how anyone would want him to be associated with Game Grumps.

Mrunlikable 6

When Jontron compared social justice warriors to screaming autistic kids, I was also hurt because I have family with special needs like that.

I haven't watched anything of his since, and honestly I don't miss it.

DTRaiden 1

Man people are ready to shit on you aye bud.

  Geno098 1

I’ve got a few stalkers following me around for being against men sexualizing children so yeah seems so.

DTRaiden 2

I do hope this Ben situation gets sorted.

Motor_Space8371

You are completely misrepresenting what happened here man. Jacob Sartorius is a corny mega celebrity with 24 million followers on tik tok. All of bens tweets about him were lightly mocking him, with the vast majority not being sexual at all. Based off bens explanation/apology (thread here) it seems that he was implying that the concept of asking Jacob sartorius for nudes was so absurd that that itself was the joke. No one has even found an actual tweet where directly mentions nudes to Jacob. Jacob has never responded or acknowledged ben in any way. This was all out in the open on Ben’s twitter feed, not in a shady way in dms or anything. Clearly these were intended to be humorous. We don’t know why they have a selfie together, but if you look at bens social media he has pics with plenty of celebrities. He probably saw jacob in public and asked for a selfie bc he thought it would be funny. Hardly incriminating.

I’m sure the GG staff did their due diligence and if they thought that ben was guilty of actual wrongdoing or was a liability, they’d fire him and make a statement. They probably feel that this whole thing is silly and are not addressing it so as not to draw attention to it and make things worse for ben who’s already being harassed by hundreds of people from this fanbase at a horrible time in his personal life. Seems to me this is the most logical conclusion as no one would continue to keep an actual child abuser on their staff, for many reasons both moral and legal.

This has been discussed over and over with nothing new coming to light. It’s done. But you personally seem obsessed and do nothing but post about ben nonstop. They should probably be more concerned about one of their staff members having a crazed stalker than anything Ben has done. It’s time for you to get a new hobby.

Shilohbomb 23

It doesn't matter how famous a celebrity is he's still a 17 year old. Ben's apology is more like an excuse with him mentioning the death of his mom. We cannot assess intention from the internet. Game grumps has not always addressed controversies straight out so no you cannot be sure they would do their due diligence. I agree that they make think that this is not the best time to make things worse for him. However people have been known to keep in contact with child abusers. Because it's really hard to recognize and realize oh this is real.

Pedophilia often goes unnoticed because of how children and even adults deal with trauma from childhood and how people defend people they feel like they know. It's not a hobby or stalking it's real concern about the community of protection for Ben who is making disgusting """"humor"""" about someone you don't even know dude.

OffBrandDrinks 12

>It doesn't matter how famous a celebrity is he's still a 17 year old.

this, a billion times over and it started when Jacob was younger! it disgusts me to no end that people use "well, so-so is a celebrity so it's okay"

zekecheek 5

i've been out of the loop, who is ben

minusyume 1

The new editor. He got in trouble for sexually harassing Jacob Sartorius through Twitter.

Icaruspotion 1

New editor

silveralgol 18

It's okay, he's not a pedophile, he just sexually harasses children over the internet. What's the problem there? I most definitely can't see how that correlates to pedophilia

myboaharthur 3

See, this is what's wrong with this sub. I can't tell if this is genuine or sarcasm. If it's genuine: what the actual fuck are you thinking? That's literal pedophilia. If it's sarcasm, disregard.

  Geno098 19

Alright peace out. This sub has been overrun by pedo defenders and I’m not havin it anymore. Y’all are sick.

zekecheek

> pedo defenders

and you're surprised that people are defensive

you're not even attacking ben anymore, just the community. keep chasing controversy, you drama queen.

boblasagna18 3

Lol y’all aren’t even ready for the dan shit

zekecheek

excuse me it's "y'all ain't"

myboaharthur 2

Hey bud, don't make fun of people's grammer. It's not like you're a fucking English teacher either. Relax and take several seats.

zekecheek 2

that's a weird assumption

and it's "grammar"

myboaharthur 1

Go read your comments. My typo is nothing compared to your verbal atrocities.

And also, there was no assumption in my statement. Just a dig at your horrid grammar when making fun of somebodies grammar

zekecheek 1

why would i need to go read them? i'm the one that wrote them

myboaharthur 1

Oh wow, you really are just that stupid. Go take a seat buddy, I'll bring you over your juice box and your child's book shortly.

zekecheek 1

good one, witty, it's going on the fridge

  Geno098 16

> you're not even attacking ben anymore, just the community

Yes, that’s what this entire thread was about. And the people in here just proved my point.

zekecheek

what was your point

  Geno098 11

That people will blindly defend the Grumps no matter what even if it’s something as serious as this.

zekecheek

are you reading? it's not blind, they just don't agree with your assessment of the severity. and they're not just defending a grump, they are defending themselves because you want to make enemies for some reason.

Mrunlikable

Don't bother. This person litterally just likes to argue. Like, all the time. Everywhere.

Squigels 12

yep, it made me take a long look at the grumps and the lovelies...pretty messed up